Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

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mjhale
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Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

Post by mjhale »

I'm curious about Ukrops motives behind their expansions to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA.

I'm thinking that the expansion to Fredericksburg would have put them in reach of the Washington, DC area if they had stayed independent and wanted to continue north. That would have put Ukrops on a collision course with Giant-MD and Safeway. I couldn't see an out of town, conservative chain doing well in Northern Virginia. People might be able to get beyond them being closed on Sundays but the lack of beer and wine sales wouldn't go over well. I believe the Fredericksburg store closed in anticipation of the Ahold buyout and transition over to the Martins nameplate.

The expansion to Roanoke, VA baffles me. It seems completely out of their demographic and it is way removed from the rest of the chain. Was Roanoke a one off thing or did Ukrops have greater plans to build more stores along I-81 and I-64? Given the demographic Ukrops was after it seems they should have opened in Charlottesville before jumping all the way to Roanoke. The Roanoke store closed in 2009 before the Ahold buyout.

If anyone has any insight on these Ukrops expansion stores I would be interested to hear your thoughts.
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

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The Roanoke store was massive and must have represented a huge investment. I never understood it either and I always thought it was a little odd and out of place. Apparently, Roanoke agreed; I don't think it lasted more than two or three years. Maybe they just thought Kroger was vulnerable there?
BatteryMill
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

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mjhale wrote: 26 Nov 2022 22:43 I'm curious about Ukrops motives behind their expansions to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA.

I'm thinking that the expansion to Fredericksburg would have put them in reach of the Washington, DC area if they had stayed independent and wanted to continue north. That would have put Ukrops on a collision course with Giant-MD and Safeway. I couldn't see an out of town, conservative chain doing well in Northern Virginia. People might be able to get beyond them being closed on Sundays but the lack of beer and wine sales wouldn't go over well. I believe the Fredericksburg store closed in anticipation of the Ahold buyout and transition over to the Martins nameplate.

The expansion to Roanoke, VA baffles me. It seems completely out of their demographic and it is way removed from the rest of the chain. Was Roanoke a one off thing or did Ukrops have greater plans to build more stores along I-81 and I-64? Given the demographic Ukrops was after it seems they should have opened in Charlottesville before jumping all the way to Roanoke. The Roanoke store closed in 2009 before the Ahold buyout.

If anyone has any insight on these Ukrops expansion stores I would be interested to hear your thoughts.
What do you think of the Fredericksburg expansion - was it a good move or not? On this note though, Ukrop's did actually have experience with Giant-MD and Safeway when they were both in Richmond and Fredericksburg.

Roanoke was certainly a better fit than anything in Virginia west of Richmond (save for Charlottesville), but I don't know why they took up the challenge of building a store so far from their main facilities. Now, let me talk about Harris Teeter. As Groceteria said, I think Ukrop's may have also went after Roanoke since Kroger no longer had a competitor in town like HT after the 1999 store swap. Interestingly, I believe Ukrop's didn't go after CVille or Hampton Roads, and vice versa since the Ukrop, Harris and Teeter families were good friends.
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

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BatteryMill wrote: 27 Nov 2022 16:14Interestingly, I believe Ukrop's didn't go after CVille or Hampton Roads, and vice versa since the Ukrop, Harris and Teeter families were good friends.
Interesting take, but I think that by the time H-T was in any position to enter either of these markets, the Harris and Teeter families had long since ceased to be part of the equation and may have been related to the company only through potential ownership of some Ruddick Corp. stock after 1969. In fact, it seems like H-T's initial expansion into Virginia was almost an afterthought. When Ruddick acquired Triad-based Food World in 1984 and merged the two chains, the goal was probably to build a bigger presence in the Triad rather than in outlying scattered locations like Danville and Roanoke.

No thoughts on Fredericksburg. I actually didn't even know they Ukrop's has staked out a presence there.
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

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Groceteria wrote: 27 Nov 2022 16:44 Interesting take, but I think that by the time H-T was in any position to enter either of these markets, the Harris and Teeter families had long since ceased to be part of the equation and may have been related to the company only through potential ownership of some Ruddick Corp. stock after 1969. In fact, it seems like H-T's initial expansion into Virginia was almost an afterthought. When Ruddick acquired Triad-based Food World in 1984 and merged the two chains, the goal was probably to build a bigger presence in the Triad rather than in outlying scattered locations like Danville and Roanoke.

No thoughts on Fredericksburg. I actually didn't even know they Ukrop's has staked out a presence there.
Perhaps the Ukrops made that connection in the early years of their business, and maintained it moving forward. Though it could be equally feasible that Ukrop's simply filled Harris Teeter's niche in Richmond and Fredericksburg.

As for Ukrop's in CVille, this article claims Ukrop's opened in the city in 1997, though I have no other evidence to suggest they operated there. This could be a gaffe for Williamsburg:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company- ... c-history/

Fxburg, I think they held out nicely there and could still, but there was a lot of competition around that time, especially since a Shoppers Club and Winn-Dixie opened right alongside. Wegmans came in towards the end, and Ukrop's just packed up and quit because this was a Giant-MD market.

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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

Post by Groceteria »

Fredericksburg is a lot closer to Richmond (literally and figuratively) so that move seems less odd than Roanoke, at any rate.
mjhale
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

Post by mjhale »

BatteryMill wrote: 27 Nov 2022 19:06 Fxburg, I think they held out nicely there and could still, but there was a lot of competition around that time, especially since a Shoppers Club and Winn-Dixie opened right alongside. Wegmans came in towards the end, and Ukrop's just packed up and quit because this was a Giant-MD market.
You are correct about Ukrops having to compete with Giant-MD and Safeway in Richmond and Giant-MD in Fredericksburg. My thinking was more along the lines of if Ukrops continued north of Fredericksburg they would be attempting to compete with Giant on its home turf. Giant had and still has a much larger store base than Ukrops. I don't think Ukrops had more than about 30-40 stores. Perhaps this equates to Giant's store base because the Richmond metro doesn't have close the population that the DC area has.

In my view Ukrops was about equivalent Giant except with a much larger focus on prepared foods and deli operations. The Fredericksburg store had a large hot foods section and a sit down cafe area, not as fancy as, but along the same lines as Wegmans. Service levels at Ukrops matched Giant in their heyday as I feel quality and selection did as well. I have always wondered if the Ukrops of the late 1990s and early 2000s before the sale to Ahold competed against the pre-Ahold Giant what kind of fight that might be. Personally I'd call it a fight to a draw because both stores have their strong points and weak ones too.

Ukrops never opened in Charlottesville. I recall reading on some retail message board that they were scouting for locations or had purchased a site but never built anything. Charlottesville would have been a good market for Ukrops from a demographic standpoint. However, they would have been going up against Giant-MD and Kroger though. But I would have stopped there. As we've said nothing beyond that - Roanoke included - fits the demographic of Ukrops.
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

Post by pseudo3d »

The Wikipedia page for Tanglewood Mall is a mess but it has this bit whether true or not:
Kroger, an outparcel, finished renovating its interior and exterior; its new front was meant to "better highlight the company's selection of fresh foods."[15] The renovations were also in anticipation of a Ukrops opening in 2007 a short distance away."
I can't imagine Ukrops was that much of a threat to Kroger that they specifically remodeled their store in reaction to that.
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

Post by BatteryMill »

mjhale wrote: 27 Nov 2022 23:52 You are correct about Ukrops having to compete with Giant-MD and Safeway in Richmond and Giant-MD in Fredericksburg. My thinking was more along the lines of if Ukrops continued north of Fredericksburg they would be attempting to compete with Giant on its home turf. Giant had and still has a much larger store base than Ukrops. I don't think Ukrops had more than about 30-40 stores. Perhaps this equates to Giant's store base because the Richmond metro doesn't have close the population that the DC area has.

In my view Ukrops was about equivalent Giant except with a much larger focus on prepared foods and deli operations. The Fredericksburg store had a large hot foods section and a sit down cafe area, not as fancy as, but along the same lines as Wegmans. Service levels at Ukrops matched Giant in their heyday as I feel quality and selection did as well. I have always wondered if the Ukrops of the late 1990s and early 2000s before the sale to Ahold competed against the pre-Ahold Giant what kind of fight that might be. Personally I'd call it a fight to a draw because both stores have their strong points and weak ones too.

Ukrops never opened in Charlottesville. I recall reading on some retail message board that they were scouting for locations or had purchased a site but never built anything. Charlottesville would have been a good market for Ukrops from a demographic standpoint. However, they would have been going up against Giant-MD and Kroger though. But I would have stopped there. As we've said nothing beyond that - Roanoke included - fits the demographic of Ukrops.
I didn't know Ukrop's was on Giant's level, I had believed it would have been a little higher. It did shine against the post-Ahold Giant, I do think.

Curiously if you'd look at my thread on RetailWatchers, I guess Ukrop's would be a good fit for Winchester now that Martin's is the only traditional grocer in the area.
pseudo3d wrote: 28 Nov 2022 00:45 The Wikipedia page for Tanglewood Mall is a mess but it has this bit whether true or not:
Kroger, an outparcel, finished renovating its interior and exterior; its new front was meant to "better highlight the company's selection of fresh foods."[15] The renovations were also in anticipation of a Ukrops opening in 2007 a short distance away."
I can't imagine Ukrops was that much of a threat to Kroger that they specifically remodeled their store in reaction to that.
Well, I guess Kroger had a second glance once Ukrop's came to town. That or the store was doing relatively well, distribution just proved to be a challenge or it was during the waning days of the company due to multiple factors. The recession, no alcohol + Sunday sales hurting them, and Food Lion surpassing Ukrop's in their home market.
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

Post by mjhale »

BatteryMill wrote: 29 Nov 2022 00:34 Curiously if you'd look at my thread on RetailWatchers, I guess Ukrop's would be a good fit for Winchester now that Martin's is the only traditional grocer in the area.
Ukrops in its heyday would have been a good upscale competitor for the Winchester area. They would offer something more than the completely middle of the road offerings from Martins and a lot more than what the remaining food lion stores are offering. The caveat is that Ukrops would have needed to offer wine and beer and be open on Sundays. Those two things were a part of their downfall in Richmond and would limit them in the Northern Virginia area where people don't have the same "traditional" beliefs as what guided Ukrops.
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Re: Ukrops expansion to Roanoke, VA and Fredericksburg, VA

Post by BatteryMill »

mjhale wrote: 10 Dec 2022 09:53
BatteryMill wrote: 29 Nov 2022 00:34 Curiously if you'd look at my thread on RetailWatchers, I guess Ukrop's would be a good fit for Winchester now that Martin's is the only traditional grocer in the area.
Ukrops in its heyday would have been a good upscale competitor for the Winchester area. They would offer something more than the completely middle of the road offerings from Martins and a lot more than what the remaining food lion stores are offering. The caveat is that Ukrops would have needed to offer wine and beer and be open on Sundays. Those two things were a part of their downfall in Richmond and would limit them in the Northern Virginia area where people don't have the same "traditional" beliefs as what guided Ukrops.
I do wonder where else Ukrop's traditional values would have done well in.

Speaking of which, Ukrop's did indeed have plans for Charlottesville. (https://www.newspapers.com/article/rich ... /119334318) This was as Harris Teeter was beginning their entry into that city, so perhaps plans never worked upwards after that. That being said, I don't remember where I heard the rumor about the founding families of HT and Ukrop's being friendly, but I have also heard the Ukrops befriended the Wegman family as well.
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